alibi online

Free Will AstrologyAlibi's Personals
 
 V.15 No.32 | August 10 - 16, 2006 

Art News

Alibi Book Club

An online discussion of J.R. Moehringer's The Tender Bar

 
 

Sponsored by Bookworks. If you wish to participate, log in to alibi.com. If you aren't registered, click here.

For more information, read Steven Robert Allen’s intereview with J.R. Moehringer here or go to the book’s official website here

J.R. Moehringer
J.R. Moehringer
Public Comments (37)
  • Hello, readers!  [ Fri Aug 11 2006 8:28 AM ]

    Steve here. If you've read The Tender Bar already, you know how good it is. If you haven't, then you're in for quite a ride.

    The purpose of this forum is to provide an online space where interested parties can spend the next few weeks discussing this fantastic book. To sweeten the experience, do yourself a favor and stop by Bookworks (4022 Rio Grande NW, 344-8139) and pick up tickets to a special event with J.R. Moehringer at Slate Street Cafe on Tuesday, Aug. 15, at 6 p.m. Tickets are $5, but if you buy a copy of the book at Bookworks, they're free. (You'll get a 10 percent discount if you mention the Alibi's Online Book club.) It's a chance to mingle with the author and meet some of the folks who will be engaged in this online book club. So stop by, slurp some vino and say hello. You'll have a fine ol' time.

  • J.R. Moehringer  [ Fri Aug 11 2006 11:20 AM ]

    is my hero. I finished reading this book last night, and now I'm just a little sad that I won't be able to spend the last few hours of every night reading it in bed. Luckily, the memory can live on through this nice discussion group. And I actually get to meet Moehringer at the event next week (as can all of you), which nearly gives me goosebumps. I love, love, love this book.

  • The cover and title ...  [ Fri Aug 11 2006 11:38 AM ]

    ... are kind of wanky. "The Tender Bar?" Heh, heh, uh, heh ... yeah, lame. But books really can't be judged by their covers, or their titles, for that matter. I'm really into this so far. Nice writing. It's a funny and fast read!

  • I couldn' t stop  [ Sat Aug 12 2006 6:16 PM ]

    reading this book. I laughed and cried all the way through.I agree with with christie-I was sad to finish--wanted more.

  • If an author can't nail the first line...   [ Sun Aug 13 2006 11:29 AM ]

    ... then there's a huge possibility they're going to really muck up their whole story. So how does Moehringer's first line hold up? Is his intro as rockin' as Kafka's to “The Metamorphosis” (“As Gregor Samsa awoke one morning from uneasy dreams he found himself transformed in his bed into a gigantic insect.”)? Or Tolstoy's to Anna Karenina (“Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.”)? Not even close. But it's still a very good one. It sucked me in. His whole first paragraph has a pleasing simple hypnotic rhythm to it. Immediately makes you curious as to just what the hell he's talking about.

    “We went there for everything we needed. We went there when thirsty, of course, and when hungry, and when dead tired. We went there when happy, to celebrate, and when sad, to sulk. We went there after weddings and funerals, for something to settle our nerves, and always for a shot of courage just before. We went there when we didn't know what we needed, hoping someone might tell us. We went there when looking for love, or sex, or trouble, or for someone who had gone missing, because sooner or later everyone turned up there. Most of all we went there when we needed to be found.”

  • Ah, Moehringer  [ Sun Aug 13 2006 11:42 AM ]

    You know, Moehringer IS kind of dreamy looking. Talent and good looks? Kind of makes me feel aggravated. Is there no justice in this world? Talented people should be ugly. It's just common courtesy.

  • I think I like  [ Sun Aug 13 2006 1:17 PM ]

    Moehringer's last line to his first paragraph more than his first line. There's certainly a poetry to it, and if I needed to describe the whole book in one sentence, I'd use that one.

    And, yes, Moehringer is a fox. But does he remind anyone else of Trey McDougal from Sex and the City? Much cuter, of course. It must be the haircut.

  • The ironic thing ...  [ Mon Aug 14 2006 8:16 AM ]

    ... about the last line of his first paragraph is that many people go to bars when they don't want to be found (by their spouses, significant others, bosses, creditors, etc.). Or, at least, that's the cliche, isn't it?

  • Don't get me wrong  [ Tue Aug 15 2006 10:16 AM ]

    I really like the book a lot, and I know Moehringer is off the hooch, but seems to me he's romanticizing bar life somewhat. I've gone through periods where I spent a lot of time in bars. It gets tiring, mainly because all that late night drinking will eventually grind you down. Also, bar relationships have a superficial quality. It's hard to really get to know anyone in that environment. You're buzzed. It's loud. The lights are dim. To a large degree you're disconnected from reality. In my experience, it's not at all like “Cheers." I've had a lot of good times in bars, but I've never had that reliable communal experience he depicts in the book. Kind of makes me want to start boozing in public again. (Not really.)

  • Still reading  [ Tue Aug 15 2006 10:29 AM ]

    I'm about a third of the way through the book, and am loving it! (Don't tell me how it ends, although I'm pretty sure he doesn't die at the end...) This dude is a MASTER storyteller! Can't wait to hear him speak tonight at Bookworks!

  • Bar life  [ Tue Aug 15 2006 11:30 AM ]

    I see what you're saying about the whole bar environment, lefty. But I think Dickens was different than most bars, which was kind of the point. In a town full of bars, known for its bars, Dickens was THE bar. Sounds like one of those perfect places where everything comes together just right ... Of course, he did fall in love with the bar (full of men) when he was a child, somewhat fatherless, and in search of male role models. Hence, the romanticized notion of bar life you speak of.

  • Christie,  [ Tue Aug 15 2006 1:28 PM ]

    I hear what you're saying. I think I'm just jealous because I've never been to a bar like Dickens, and I guess I'm a little skeptical that such a place can even exist. Is there a place like this in Albuquerque? I can't think of one. Maybe Sonny's.

  • What happens at the end is ...  [ Tue Aug 15 2006 1:45 PM ]

    ... he gives up the writing life and becomes a street juggler, eventually gaining national attention on "America's Got Talent," then he gets a permanent high-profile gig as the opening act for Wayne Newton at the Flamingo Hotel in Las Vegas. Sorry, bad joke. Really bad. Can you guess, Butcher Boy——what do you think happens at the end? I think the epilogue "One of Many" is one of the most emotional parts of the book. You'll dig it! Don't worry, I won't spoil it for you.

    Actually, this brings up one potential problem with this forum. We should all try to be sensitive to spoilage. In other words, to the extent possible, we should discuss the book in a way that's sensitive to the fact that this is an untraditional book club and posters/readers will be at different points in the memoir. Don't ruin any big surprises for people!

  • Lefty  [ Tue Aug 15 2006 2:11 PM ]

    Hope I'm qualified to comment, even though I haven't finished reading yet, but: seems to me like Dickens, like Cheers, is the kind of home away from home everyone is looking for. A place to feel safe, be yourself. I know I've always longed for a safe haven like that.

  • Bar life  [ Tue Aug 15 2006 4:18 PM ]

    I've spent a lot of time in the past working in a bar... little different than frequenting one but I have to say that sense of belonging, friendship, in-commoness does happen when you're there day in and day out. It becomes a place to go, even when you don't have to go, and there is a common thread of searching that seems to run through the veins of all the people that find a sense of home there. Having said all that, it's also shallower in some ways than other friendships I've experienced. Time spent together out of the bar doesn't feel quite right in the way that it does in the darkness, noise and drinking... Just bought this book yesterday at ebooks.com and am on chapter 6. Loving it and loving Moehringer's pacing and humor. Wish I could go to the event tonight but can't. Nice to meet y'all.

  • Good to have you on board, dakinidevi.  [ Tue Aug 15 2006 5:06 PM ]

    We'll make sure to give a thorough recap tomorrow so you can at least experience the evening vicariously!

  • What a great night!  [ Wed Aug 16 2006 9:05 AM ]

    I sure had a fine time last night. Thanks to y'all for coming, and I hope you enjoyed yourselves as much as I did. Slate Street was packed, and it ended up being a perfect environment for this kind of event. Thanks to the folks at Bookworks for putting it all together. Thanks, too, to J.R. Moehringer. Most writers spend so much time locked in solitary confinement behind their keyboards that they have no clue how to interact with a crowd. Not so with Mr. Moehringer. This guy didn't give a reading. He delivered a full-on five-star performance. He was so funny and so engaged with the audience, I heard at least two people say that he should start doing stand-up comedy. Even better, he really dug into The Tender Bar, illuminating it for me in ways I hadn't even considered. Nice guy, too. He let a few of us chat with him while he chowed down on a steak after his presentation. Very cool.

    Anyway, he gave us lots of food for thought over the course of the evening. I hope some of you who were there last night will share your impressions, and post some comments on the book. If you have any problems logging on or registering, email me at steve@alibi.com or call me at 346-0660 ext. 251, and I'll try to get you set up.

  • check out this page  [ Wed Aug 16 2006 9:37 AM ]

    on the book's website: tenderbar.com/author.htm. It's got pictures of Moehringer as a kid and also of his mom and McGraw. He should put up a few more. It's nice to associate characters with faces.

    Fun event last night. I think he WAS doing stand-up comedy.

  • Awesome night!  [ Wed Aug 16 2006 9:44 AM ]

    Wow, I had SUCH a good time last night. I showed up because I am enjoying the book so much, but didn't expect to have a good time. I mean, really, "book signing and reading" doesn't sound very exciting, but MAN, was it awesome. The venue, the people, and J.R. (how very, very yummy!), all was great. Thanks Alibi! I think you guys are really on to something here!

  • Cool night  [ Wed Aug 16 2006 11:10 AM ]

    Last night was wonderful. I'm glad that the Albuquerque turnout impressed him. He is so engaging,articulate and down to earth. He actually helped me get my girlfriend's earring unhooked from her scarf while we were in line to get his signature. Thank you all responsible for organizing this event. I am looking forward to future gatherings.

  • How could I foregt?!!!  [ Wed Aug 16 2006 12:05 PM ]

    I can't believe I forgot about the book signing!!!! Ugh! I had really wanted to go. It seems like I really missed out. However, I absolutely loved JR's memoir. I finished it a bit ago. It had a little bit of everything: it was funny, sad, sentimental...it was great! I wasn't too sure about it when I first heard about it, but once I started to read it, I found that it was well written and extremely engaging. I felt like I really got to know JR, and I was sad when the book ended. It's really hard to put into words how much I enjoyed this book. I guess the best way is to keep telling people about it. I think that I may have gotten by non-book boyfriend to read it!

  • Fantastic ...  [ Wed Aug 16 2006 12:46 PM ]

    ... event last night. I never expected such a large turnout, and such a charismatic author (much, much cuter in person, by the way). What a great way to start off the book club.

  • I've been thinking about ...  [ Thu Aug 17 2006 9:06 AM ]

    ... what a great book this is for writers. I mean, obviously, it has a very wide appeal, but for writers it's especially inspirational: Moehringer tells us again and again how hard it is to succeed, but also reminds us that success as a writer is possible with a little bit of talent and a ton of hard work. I love that part where he's putting together lists of pretentious 50-cent words to shoehorn into his prose to make it more impressive. (He did a funny bit on this at the event on Tuesday.) Hilarious. And a nice reminder that everyone in the world (pretty much) starts out as a terrible writer. Getting better sure can be an ordeal. I remember one of my undergraduate professors complaining about “word-drunk freshmen.” I still love that phrase. And I still feel like I'm word-drunk sometimes, even though I recognize that restraint is usually the key to good writing. Words can have such a narcotic effect, for the writer as well as the reader, it's easy to get carried away.

  • Agreed.  [ Fri Aug 18 2006 4:45 PM ]

    This is a great book for writers. One of my favorite aspects of the book is its absolute love of words--expressed in both the "characters" and the prose. It inspired me to start keeping a word journal for every book I read (The Tender Bar being the inaugural one). Every time I come across I word I don't know, or know but never use in my own writing, I write it and its definition in a notebook. It's practical, sure, but it's also just fun to see all those beautiful words splayed out on a page, and to have a journal of all the books you've read and the words you were drawn to at that time in your life.

  • Anyone read Callahan\'s Place?  [ Mon Aug 21 2006 4:19 PM ]

    This book reminded me so strongly of a Sci-Fi classic by Spider Robinson, where only people who needed to find the bar could find it. All the plots came from people stumbling into the bar and making toasts by throwing their glasses into the fireplace. Hijinx ensue. But the pathos and connection (and puns) and the love of storytelling and words are all the same as in The Tender Bar, which I loved (and inhaled in three sittings).

    I had to keep my pencil handy to underline simple words of wisdom every few pages -- quite unexpected for a young guy\'s story about growing up in a bar.

    I thought the understanding of men and their relationship to each other and their mothers was really powerful, and I felt like I learned *a lot* from the author as well as all the other characters.

    Oh, and from his charming & charismatic talk at Slate St., what our table was saying about him was not only that he should do stand up, but that he\'s the latest Mark Twain. Really. Guy\'s good.

    Does anyone know why the publisher insisted on the J.R. versus the JR throughout the book?

    Also, what I\'d like to ask him, now that I\'ve seen his storytelling in person, is how he rates as a storyteller compared to those he reveres in the book. I would bet that he doesn\'t even rank himself highly, but he sure charmed the pants off everyone the other night! We were eating out of his hand. When everyone lined up to get the book signed, it was almost all women (even though several men had asked questions earlier...). Quite the charmer.

    I was a little turned off by all the testosterone, to be honest. But as a friend said, he had that heady combination of confidence, vulnerability, maleness, talent, and wisdom. Oh boy! Talk about Trouble!

  • Spider Robinson  [ Mon Aug 21 2006 4:40 PM ]

    I notice on Amazon that he\'s put out a bunch of Callahan books. Have your read others, too. I think I might pick one up on the strength of his first name alone. Sounds like another great read!

  • Hey mjae,  [ Tue Aug 22 2006 10:38 AM ]

    Did you feel that his book was characterized by too much testosterone, or his performance, or both? Just curious.

  • Little bit of both  [ Fri Aug 25 2006 8:29 AM ]

    Don\'t get me wrong. I really appreciated the wisdom he had. And I think it\'s hard-won, which I also respect.

    I thought both were pretty testosterone-soaked, though. Not necessarily a bad thing, and definitely a plus when it comes to the marketability of his book to men as well as women (who are suckers for the one-two knockout punch of confidence and vulnerability).

    AND let me acknowledge that writing a memoir as young as he is means automatically that he\'s got a self-referential bent, right?

    Given those things, he\'s still one of the biggest men lovers and testosterone worshippers I\'ve encountered. Not necessarily a bad thing, as I think he does explore both sides -- what men bring to the table and what they lack.

    At times, it was just a bit much. I think as someone pointed out above, the romanticizing of alcohol was hard to read, especially as you can read between the lines that so many of the characters were in pretty deep addictions. The fact that he could take and leave drinking periodically meant to me that he couldn\'t really understand the position of most of the men in the bar for whom drinking was not just incidental to being in a bar among men.

    What was your take?

  • Callahan\'s NON-Trilogy  [ Fri Aug 25 2006 8:32 AM ]

    Oh, it\'s kind of a running joke that there\'s more than one Callahan\'s book.

    Spider Robinson got the idea as a short story, then sold the book, wrote the rest around it.

    But it was such a runaway hit, everyone clamoring for him to write more, that he got to thinking more about the characters, and out popped book #2.

    Everyone wanted it to be a trilogy, then, though. Spider again swore he couldn\'t write another one.

    But then he did.

    Then it was a trilogy-that-wasn\'t.

    Then he wrote a fourth.

    The original is definitely the best, but the characters and set-up are so addicting that you\'ll read them all anyway and forgive whatever faults you find in the later books.

    Let me know what you think!

  • Testosterone Worship  [ Fri Aug 25 2006 9:12 AM ]

    I agree with you, mjae, to a large degree. From the very beginning of the book, of course, Moehringer makes it clear that there\'ll be some serious testosterone worship going on. In this case, in my opinion, it\'s not a negative thing because he handles it with quite a bit of depth and self-reflection.

    The whole book, in a way, is primarily about how he started out with a giant hole in his life because of the absence of his father and then has to spend a good deal of time searching for a strong male presence to fill the void. He seems worried at one point that he\'ll become a fragile mama\'s boy, so I think he feels obligated, on some level, to overcompensate. (Maybe \"overcompensate\" isn\'t exactly the right word?) Thankfully, he\'s self-aware enough to realize that this is what\'s going on. Given the circumstances it\'s only natural, and understandable. After all, even though he clearly looks up to the men at the bar, he also goes to great lengths to illustrate how it\'s MEN who have disappointed him and his mother the most.

    One thing I really like about the memoir is that even though it\'s so self-consciously masculine--with all the emphasis on sex and drinking and baseball--the real hero of the book, and Moehringer made this very clear in both the book and his presentation, is his mother. She\'s by far the strongest character, and the smartest and most admirable. I think this single fact gives the book the balance it needs to work.

    It\'s ironic, because he searches his whole life for someone to fill in for his missing father, but in the end it\'s his mother who really plays the biggest role in making him the person he is. Without her, all that thirst for manliness would\'ve probably teetered over into intolerable machismo. I don\'t think this happened, but at times, I agree with you, it comes awfully darn close.

    As far as the drinking goes, it seems to me that he touches on the dangers of alcoholism in the book but never delves that deeply into it. I get the impression it\'s something he\'s wrestled with personally. I\'m pretty sure he\'s on the wagon right now, and if this is the case, it probably saved his career. Contrary to popular belief, regular binge drinking and good writing rarely go hand in hand.

  • spider  [ Fri Aug 25 2006 9:20 AM ]

    Is the first novel called \"Callahan\'s Crosstime Saloon\"? (I can\'t find \"Callahan\'s Place\" on amazon. Did the title morph?) I definitely want to hunt it down.

  • Yes, sorry.  [ Wed Aug 30 2006 1:01 PM ]

    Callahan\'s Crosstime Saloon. I\'m really looking forward to hearing what you think.

    And...I\'m probably going to make enemies now, but I SO don\'t buy the whole Mom\'s the saving grace thing. She\'s not the strongest character in the book. I admire the choices she made to give her son happiness and opportunities for success, but ... she is not as well drawn as either you or he claimed. He just gets points for recognizing that she\'s a good mom in a hard situation, but as a woman, I certainly did NOT get a good enough picture of her to understand her as a person. As a mom? Maybe a little bit. He just doesn\'t spend much time on her, which was a shame, but really, that\'s not what his book was about, so it didn\'t bother me that much. Claiming she\'s the hero of the book does.

  • Dissent is Patriotic  [ Thu Aug 31 2006 9:00 AM ]

    Mjae: In my vision of how this forum would play out (which didn\'t happen at all), people would post ideas on the book from across the spectrum, including some who might actually hate the book. I\'m kind of relieved we\'ve finally got some disagreement here. What\'s the point of discussing a book if we all believe exactly the same thing?

    Anyway, I\'m wondering if there\'s another character in the memoir that works for you as a heroic figure. I can\'t think of one. I\'m not saying his mom is Superwoman or anything. She\'s simply heroic, strong and admirable in the real world sense, of doing the best for her kid in a very bad situation. That\'s no small thing. For Moehringer, at least, she was definitely a saving grace.

    My argument isn\'t really that she\'s especially well drawn either. (I didn\'t mean \"strong\" in that sense.) There are aspects of her personality that remain a complete mystery. You don\'t get a deep sense of her past or what she was like before she became a mom. I agree with you that his portrait of her mainly revolves around her being a hard-working, dedicated mother, but I still think he spends more time on her than any other single character in the book, with the possible exception of Uncle Charlie, who, let\'s face it, is an amusing character but hardly heroic.

    PS: No luck finding the Spider Robinson book at local stores yet. I\'m going to try Books and Beans this afternoon.

  • Another non-believer  [ Thu Sep 7 2006 9:59 AM ]

    The farther away from the actual reading I get, the more I don't like the book.

    The short answer to your question, editorial, is no. There are no real heroes in the book, unless you count JR himself, which we shouldn't. Now that the humorous tidbits about the characters are falling away from my memory, no one really stands out. Maybe the composite of "maleness" based on ALL the guys in that one bar in that one time. But how depressing is THAT?

    I've had periods in my life when things were magical in the way he described. I think we all have to some degree. I've heard people describe high school that way, childhood that way, college, etc. For me, it was one glorious semester when I was hanging out with a group of fantastic guys playing ping-pong and brewing beer in college. I learned so much about men and my reaction to men.

    Maybe that's all we're supposed to take away here, and just as in life, no one's the hero. We pat JR on the back for having written it down, done the interviews, and getting it out there. And that's that. His writing is the real strength, I think, not the story. His story about the story is better than the story itself. Don't you agree? Reading it is a little like getting that testosterone high. Feels really good and heady and powerful. And then it wears off, and you're just surrounded by smelly, drunk men. Ok, that's hyperbole, but you get my point.

    So what's the next book? (Can we talk about other books in the meantime? Give me your best ever list...)

  • Getting carried away  [ Thu Sep 7 2006 10:02 AM ]

    All of that was supposed to be a ramp-up to saying that my boyfriend's now reading it, 300 pages in, and he's not impressed. He says he can see why women like it, because they aren't as familiar with the whole male socialization process, but for men... He just can't understand what the big deal is. I think, like you, he just can't connect with the characters on any deep level.

    To be completely contrary for a second, I think there's still lots to be said for a discussion about what people loved about the book, even if we all agree. I love adding more depth to my understanding and getting additional insights about why I should love the book even more based on what other people valued in it.

    Sometimes those are better discussions than trying to talk across positions of "I love it" and "I hate it."

  • I disagree  [ Thu Sep 7 2006 11:45 PM ]

    Mjae, you say the main strength of the book lies in the way the author tells the story, and not in the story itself, and you imply that this is a negative thing (or at least that's how I interpret your comments). But one of the things I like so much about this book is that it shows that everyone's story is worth telling. It's a memoir. It's based off facts. And maybe Moehringer didn't have some fantastically strange life that makes for a great story in itself--he wasn't born to a clan of gypsies, let's say--but he tells his story with wit, honesty, humility and eloquence, and I think that's all we can ask of any author attempting to open up their life. Besides, I find his story interesting.

    Also, I do think the reader is able to emotionally connect with the characters. I did, at least. We know as much about them as Moehringer knew, or wanted us to know, and just because he doesn't spell out their thoughts doesn't mean they aren't still subtlely present. And in regards to there not being a "hero" of the book, should there be? Are each of our lives graced with one, single, stand-out hero? Is every book even graced with that?

    For me, it's a beautiful book that I'm tempted to read again. It made me reflect on my own life, think about how I'd tell my story. It's a daring thing, putting your memories out there. Thinking about writing your own memoir makes you examine the things you're proud of, ashamed of, etc. ... or the things that are too special for you to share.

    Weeks after reading it, I'm still thinking about this book. It hasn't dissipated for me. I guess I'm still on a testosterone high.

  • Agreeing to agree  [ Fri Sep 8 2006 9:11 AM ]

    Quark, actually, I think we agree on almost everything. The story, the value of telling the story, etc.

    I didn't mean to undercut your enjoyment of the book; I enjoyed reading it.

    I'm just not having the lasting good feelings that others will most certainly have.

    Cheers.

 
Join our mailing list for exclusive info, the week's events and free stuff!
 

  • Select sidebar boxes to add below. You can also click and drag to rearrange the boxes; minimize, maximize and close using the little icons on each box. To re-add a box you closed, return to this menu.
  • Because you are not logged in, any changes you make to these boxes will vanish as soon as you click to another page. If you log in, the boxes will stick.
  • alibi.com
  • Latest Posts
  • Most Active Stories
  • Latest User Posts
  • Highest-Rated Posts
  • Most Active Users
  • Web Exclusives
  • Latest User Blogs
  • Latest Chowtown Reviews
  • Recent Rocksquawk Discussions
  • Recent Classifieds
  • This Week's Alibi Picks
  • Albuquerque
  • Duke City Fix
  • Albuquerque Beer Scene
  • What's Wrong With This Picture?
  • Reddit Albuquerque
  • ABQ Journal Metro
  • ABQrising
  • ABQ Journal Latest News
  • Del.icio.us Albuquerque
  • NM and the West
  • New Mexico FBIHOP
  • Democracy for New Mexico
  • Only in New Mexico
  • Mario Burgos
  • Democracy for New Mexico
  • High Country News
  • El Grito
  • NM Politics with Joe Monahan
  • Stephen W. Terrell's Web Log
  • The Net Is Vast and Infinite
  • Slashdot
  • Freedom to Tinker
  • Is there a feed that should be on this list? Tell us about it.
    $50 Tattoo benefit
    $50 Tattoo benefit6.1.2013