Just picked up a copy of the Best of Burque issue, and was a little confused by several categories being omitted from the issue. Whats the deal with that? What is the point of making a category, encouraging people to vote, and then not running the results?

Don't try; be mediocre.

Sometimes some categories suck. It goes down three ways:

1) for whatever reason, no one's voting in that category, resulting in not enough votes to produce a conclusive 1st, 2nd and 3rd place winner.

Or the opposite happens, but to the same effect: 2) too many votes are split in too many different directions to produce a conclusive 1st, 2nd and 3rd place winner. For example, this happens when every band in town votes for itself in the Best Band in Town category, which produces a 400-way tie for 1st place (each getting a victorious 1 vote each), and no 2nd or 3rd place.

3) Something will get enough votes to take 1st, with a 600-way tie for second/third places. So, same deal. If there's no 1st, 2nd and 3rd place winner, the category was poorly designed.

Basically, we don't run results when there are no results. Does that answer your question?

Jeffie, you are the zen master of Vertigo Venus.

Ties are printed this year, too: 2 or 3 way ties are reasonable. 83-way ties ... well, you see the difference.

It all seems a bit snarky to me, and altogether too convenient for the Alibi to backpedal on a system of categories, some of which have been in place for several years.

Categories or not, Jessica Cassyle Carr went on record saying that Vertigo Venus was omitted from the issue this year. That seems like that has nothing to do with fluid categories and votes but rather that VV was "retired" for reasons that are unclear. It seems all to convenient that the categories that Vertigo Venus won in 2009 are ALL omitted.

Get over it already. Whiners. (I actually have no clue who Vertigo Venus is, and I certainly don't want to know now)

seriously, what a shitty band... OMG.

I'm totally going to check them out now. Too curious not to.

Here's the thing, Laura, you guys are saying, essentially, that the votes swung too much in one direction, and so Jessica decided to omit those categories, and then "retire" my band from competing in the BOB via your website, taking five categories, and the other bands working for those categories, with it. It's not like these were small categories, either - you guys know how many guitarists there are in this town, right?

But, if I may be blunt, that explanation still doesn't clear this thing up. Why? Because no matter what, SOMEONE else had to have been vying for the categories you omitted besides those that won it. There's got to be a second place, and every time there is, you guys don't say by how many votes 1st, 2nd, and 3rd won; you just print 1st, 2nd or 3rd.

You're essentially saying that, if someone does "too good", the category is omitted, because it's one-sided? What is this, Kindergarten? Politicians run un-opposed all the time. Someone can't do that in a local best of contest?

I'm really not trying to offend you guys, but this thing still seems a bit lopsided. Yes, some other categories were omitted from this issue, but let's face it, Laura, there's five that should have been there that weren't. You kept "best bail bond service", and "best stipper", but you removed five major categories from the music section? Doesn't make sense, sorry.

So you're trying to tell us there there simply just wasn't enough of a response to include the "Best Weekly or Monthly Bar Event"? I find it hard to believe you got a big enough response from Best Accountant and not for a Bar Event.

A weekly's Best Of issue should be the highlight issue of the year, not a place for shout outs to your friends. You had categories on the ballot, they should be somewhere. You have a website, with unlimited storage, so why not post the full results? When you have articles with more info than can be printed they go on here, so why not the actual results?

Talking about 83 way ties is a thinly veiled lie for not having an excuse to answer the questions given to you. If you only printd the exact results, you're saying that there are several categories in which there were A)Over a dozen things voted for in a category and B)they all received the EXACT number of votes? I just can't believe that you'd get exactly the same number of votes over two or three times on a plethora of categories. How about showing us some numbers and proving me wrong?

Or better yet how about having an independent organization tally your votes for next year. It's bound to be less stressful for all you, gives the system some integrity and it's less likely for me and others to consider it just as an important measure of who is accomplished in town as the faces in Albuquerque The Magazine.

Damn good point, and here's why: last year, in several categories, there were TWO WAY TIES!!!!

I thought to myself last year, how the hell does it happen that there would be EXACTLY the same amount of votes for two ENTIRELY SEPARATE entities?

Oh, right, because you can just generalize, and lump some stuff into various categories, the same reason that you can retire a band from competing in a contest because they pissed off some dudes on a forum who don't have the gumption to promote themselves.

Cheezric: Sounds like someone is sour grapes that they didn't win "Best Bitch." My I proclaim you that myself, good sir. Want a cookie?

Brian: Your band sucks anyways, so shut up. Being the "best band in Albuquerque" is like winning a race in the Special Olympics. Want some cheese with that whine?

But if your mom hadn't won that special olympics race, you wouldn't be here, so you should be pretty grateful to the special olympics.

and you're disappointed that more weren't physically listed in the paper for your own sake? Is your penis so small it recedes into your body? Wow!

I've met Laura on several occasions and I agree with you. The problem is she really wasn't very clear on how they votes are tallied and has not responded to all concerns (The excuse part was really directed at someone else at the offices). She closed with asking if it answered the question and the responses have indicated that it hasn't. I'd like to see a break down of the votes. I understand that there may be reasoning for not having it in print. However, there's ample place to put it online, and there's no reason why a full disclosure of the results cannot be posted with an "as is" disclaimer. I'd just like to see the actual numbers or be provided with the metric used that gives 400 way ties.

I know that we won't see the vote counts, of course. I respect the Alibi and all the work they go thru/have to do to do this thing, they don't HAVE to do a best of burque issue, they don't HAVE to count all these votes, they do it because they want to, and I thank them for that. Could it be done better? Some things, maybe. Should it be treated like a political count? Not really. Is the way things are setup kinda silly? For sure.

Larua's explanation clears up why the Alibi wouldn't post a category's results because of it seeming one-sided because one group got too many votes; unfortunately there were some things said that made things seem one-sided on a different level (now removed from the site). In addition, that explanation doesn't actually make sense in the grand scheme, because the vote counts have never been posted from a BOB; we've always taken their word for it on who takes 1st/2nd/3rd or ties. The expectation would be that if one group got four votes in a category they'd get first, and the next group got three votes they'd get second, and so on... but we're being told that that's not how the Alibi's system works. We're being told that the way it works is that apparently, a specific number of votes across a spread is enough to show that that category has enough participants, to then print the results. Which, honestly, just sounds silly.

Oh well. Albuquerque is a pretty silly place, after all.

Jeffie gave me one on Saturday. Mint oreo.

Jeffie gave me one on Saturday. Mint oreo.

Vertigo Venus hands out cookies, and asskickings. The two things we're best at!

So this is a thread about one member of a band saying his fans shouldn't vote for them because he got called a cheater and another getting in a panty-twisted rage because the band may or may not have won in a hypothetical category that was possibly ommitted which they didn't want any votes for.

Not really, but sure. Oh, and Anonymous is SO last year.

Isn't it interesting that Alibi removes Vertigo Venus due to winning consistently, yet restaurants that win consistently they aren't removed?

Well, in fact, the issue that we brought up here was that Jessica Carr described us as "retired" from BOB, and took out the categories that we were specifically pushing for, both in print and on the web.

The argument that wining multiple times off is indeed moot, as you point out, because plenty of bands have placed in the same way every year, and they're not barred from winning.

Oh well.

Congrats to Vertigo Venus, Brian Botkiller, the various offshoots and members of their organization/band(s) for all the categories they took this year.

Wheter you like 'em or not, whether you think they were put at a disadvantage by having fewer categories to compete in, these cats put their money where their mouths are and have aggresivley marketed themselves and campaigned using all the modern 'tools' available to bands these days (social networking sites, web sites, hussling and hitting the streets and clubs, etc.) and have pulled off another year of wins, despite all the bullshit, drama and accusations of fould play in the past. You guys should be proud of yourselves and should not sweat the whole thing. Remember--despite the real or imagined obstacles put forth from the Alibi and message boards thaqt yo may perceive, you fuckers won some! And really, you did it the old fashioned way; by building a fan base, hussling and marketing and taking responsibility for the direction and destiny of you and your band(s).

Alright!

Congrats!

..I don't really give a fuck (when it comes to these popularity contests). Although that's just my way of saying;

-I'm too lazy to go to that much effort.

-I Rock and I don't worry about too much further validation in that area.

-I like to waste time at my day job posting on message boards.

And good call on the Tracy Flick thing. Pretty much sums this 'situation' up.

When a band, restaurant, theatre company, record store, photographer or any other entity that participates in Albuquerque's commerce sector is mentioned in the local media as "[entity] is the Best XYZ in Albuquerque" this mention has an impact on [entity's] future as a business in New Mexico.

I certainly have eaten in restaurants that have consistent showings in the BoB restaurant review largely because they are mentioned in the Alibi. Not all of us are completely in the know when it comes to finding the best tattoo, piercing or green chile cheeseburger in town. That's why we have the Alibi. (keep in mind, this is praise for the Alibi, I value what you do...now the BUT)

Tricklock theater company (for example) doesn't just sell theater tickets in a vacuum. It takes people talking about how great a particular show is. It's word of mouth, it's performance previews and reviews in the media and it's also done when the Alibi readers vote in the BoB. Being left out of the Alibi BoB won't make people stop going to the see Tricklock, but being included may help sell a couple more seats to the next opening show, and that pays to keep the lights on and actors working. If we don't support our local entertainers, they will stop entertaining us. Without arts and entertainment, Albuquerque is going to be a sad place to live.

Now on Vertigo Venus. Not showing up in the BoB isn't going to be the end of their career as a band. But not being recognized or listed may cost them a couple of CD sales, a twitter follower, a facebook friend. Recognition like last year's BoB might have helped them score an opening set with My Life with the Thrill Kill Kult in 2009. Continued positive local recognition could help them get other gigs in the future.

The truth is that they won a few categories, not by cheating, but by asking their fans to vote for them and the businesses they support. Every business in Albuquerque has the same opportunity to ask it's supporters to vote in the BoB. Some believe the BoB is a popularity contest. I can't disagree with this, but when a popular local paper writes off popular local talent, it is a disservice to Albuquerque and its commerce sector.

I don't think VV are being sore winners. They worked hard to get out the BoB vote. Being snuffed by the paper might have a slight negative impact on their future sales and show attendance, even if it's only one person who doesn't buy a CD or a ticket. To be punished for their hard work was not what they expected from this contest.

I am not a member of VV, however I do know a few of them and have seen them perform handful of times. I also read most of the Alibi almost every week.

david

thanks for the kind words, David. Again, I don't really care about not winning or losing; I care about being "retired" because an editor decided it was better to do that because there's so-called "controversy" over how we do things.

People can feel however they want about our music and what we do, but we support this scene year after year, no matter what, we won't stop that.