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nooberish custom pc on a budget (10)
  • nooberish custom pc on a budget  [ Thu Feb 26 2009 3:23 PM ]

    I'm replacing a 2.4Ghz Pentium 4 w/ 1G RAM & trying to keep it under $500. Primary use will be a graphic design workstation. I'm interested in any feedback I can get esp. WRT parts/compatibility.

    From my newegg.com wish list:

    AMD Phenom 9850 BLACK EDITION 2.5GHz

    XIGMATEK Dark Knight-S1283V 120mm Long Life Bearing CPU Cooler

    MSI KA780G AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard

    Kingston HyperX 4GB (4 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500)

    Sony Optiarc 22X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA

    Western Digital Caviar SE WD3200AAJS 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

    Rosewill Stallion Series RD400-2-SB 400W ATX V2.2 Power Supply

    COOLER MASTER Elite 360 RC-360-KKN1-GP Black Steel / Plastic ATX Mini Tower Computer Case

    EVERCOOL FAN-EC12025M12C 120mm Case Fan (x1)

    Rosewill RFA-80-K 80mm Case Fan

    Total = $493.40 before shipping

    The 3 case fans may be overkill, but the case is kinda small (5.8" x 15" x 16.1") and I figure it's better to err on the side of caution. Plus I chose the Black Edition Phenom and MSI KA780G because (I've read) they are really overclock friendly. I've never tried to overclock a system before, but I hope this setup gives me the flexibility to dabble/tweak once I get adventurous. Hence the copious amount of fans. I'm also not sure about the CPU heatsink & fan—too big/small?

    It'll run one distro of linux or another. Probably Ubuntu because I'm comfortable with it (Gnome) already, but I think I should take this opportunity to try something new. Maybe I'll man-up and go the Arch Linux route.

    Any thoughts? What did I overlook?

  • thoughts  [ Thu Feb 26 2009 5:31 PM ]

    People still bother to overclock? :-) Todays CPUs are so awesome as-is, that I just don't see the point. Oh well, to each his own. Someone else'll have to advise you on the cooling.

    You found a nice cheap disk. Neat. If that were my box, I'd spend another $50 for a second one and software RAID1 'em. (Who am I kidding? I'd actually buy 4 and run a mix of various RAID levels and filesystems on each mountpoint, but I'm a little nutty that way.) But seriously, when disks are this cheap, everyone (except maybe laptop users) ought to be RAID1ing, even if they don't get all fancy about it.

    Looks like you're going to use the motherboard's integrated ATI Radeon HD 3200 video. Have you checked to make sure you can get drivers? I know AMD/ATI was opening up, but haven't kept up to date on how far along things are. Have you?

  • =D Hmmm...  [ Fri Feb 27 2009 11:31 AM ]

    Thanks for the feedback!

    Unfortunately, I'm not entirely sure I'm clear on the benefits I'd reap from a RAID1. Obviously it would be nice to have the security a mirrored disk would provide, and I guess another $50 is a small price to pay for that peace of mind, but there has to be something else that I don't quite wrap my head around. Or is there? I'm pretty good about backing up important data on to disc as it is, and I understand that RAID is not meant to replace that practice. What am I missing? I guess I need to be talked into that idea before I can really get behind it.

    As far as the integrated GPU, though I have never been up to date and only just started researching, it doesn't seem to be a problem:

    Hardware Support

    But I may be reading that wrong. Clicking around the forums it seems that a lot of people are using a Radeon 3200. It also seems that they develop problems when trying to enable "crossfire"—which I assume means using 2 video cards (GPUs), but haven't really looked into—but I won't be going that way w/ my 1 onboard GPU. ;-)

    There must still be hobbyists/enthusiasts out there overclocking their systems that AMD is targeting with their Black Edition since AMD unlocks the multiplier on the Black Edition processors—which apparently cost less than their locked counterparts. I figure I may as well take advantage of it. :-)

    And I'm never happy with anything as is—you should see my car! =D

  • RAID  [ Tue Mar 3 2009 2:07 PM ]

    Unfortunately, I'm not entirely sure I'm clear on the benefits I'd reap from a RAID1. Obviously it would be nice to have the security a mirrored disk would provide, and I guess another $50 is a small price to pay for that peace of mind, but there has to be something else that I don't quite wrap my head around. Or is there? I'm pretty good about backing up important data on to disc as it is, and I understand that RAID is not meant to replace that practice.

    RAID is meant to reduce downtime in the event of a disk failure. Even if you're backing up your whole HD to something for a full restore, you still have to get the new hard drive, reinstall the OS, etc. etc. That could take DAYS.

    With a mirror, one drive dies, you replace it and the mirror is rebuilt on the fly.

    Software RAID has apparently improved with age and has the advantage of being free. Hardware RAID is usually more macho and has the advantage of operating independently of the OS. The downside to hardware RAID is that if that RAID card goes, you are just as fucked as if you didn't have RAID in the first place.

  • RAID  [ Tue Mar 3 2009 4:23 PM ]

    Hardware RAID is usually more macho

    I think hardware RAID is obsolete.

    Processor cores cost less than RAID hardware. Why offload work from CPU, when CPU is faster and cheaper? Just spring for the processor that has one more core.

    I've seen the same cycle over'n'over since my Amiga days. Someone has cool hardware dedicated to something, and then a few years later, cheap CPUs are doing it faster. Blitters are history. Hardware RAID is history. I'm glad I don't work at NVIDIA.

  • Software RAID is OS-dependent  [ Tue Mar 3 2009 4:33 PM ]

    So good luck dual-booting. Or triple-booting. Etc.

    Hardware RAID can also offer cool features like hot-swapping drives.

    In general, though, I agree with you.

  • super computer gurus who know stuff  [ Wed Mar 4 2009 12:58 PM ]

    Thanks for the education!

    But dumping an extra disk or two in a small and carefully approximated design is pushing this project over budget and may be necessitating a larger power supply and/or case.

    Could a software RAID solution be accomplished with an external hard drive and a USB 2.0/or Firewire cable?

    I tried googling up an answer and it seems perfectly reasonable given this gem I came across:

    USB stick RAID in ACTION!


    Last edited [3/4/09 12:59 PM]
  • Redundant Array of Inexpensive Computers  [ Wed Mar 4 2009 1:06 PM ]

    I actually don't have any RAID stuff running at home. Just lots of backup (though still not enough) and lots of computers. Well, three Macs and two Linux boxes. Two out of the five can also dual boot into Windows XP.

    Having several computers that I can use if one goes down is sufficient for me. On any one of them I can restore data from the dead one and get my electronic life rolling again.

  • small case?  [ Wed Mar 4 2009 3:30 PM ]

    ¿People still dual-b-- sorry, couldn't resist.

    But dumping an extra disk or two in a small and carefully approximated design is pushing this project over budget and may be necessitating a larger power supply and/or case.

    Over budget? Fair enough. It was just an idea.

    Over case capacity? That would be a surprise, but I guess it's possible.

    Over wattage? I don't think so. According to your list, you're buying a 400W supply. Modern disks use less than 10W. If things are close enough that another disk matters, then you already had problems (but I think you'll be fine).

    Could a software RAID solution be accomplished with an external hard drive and a USB 2.0/or Firewire cable?

    Theoretically, but I haven't tried it. The page you linked to speaks for itself, I guess.

    That ought to cost more, not less. If a separate enclosure and power supply for a disk doesn't cost more than a slightly larger power supply in your main box (something you won't need in your situation) or a slightly larger case (maybe), something funny is happening.

  • ah, so...  [ Wed Mar 4 2009 4:55 PM ]

    But dumping an extra disk or two in a small and carefully approximated design is pushing this project over budget and may be necessitating a larger power supply and/or case.

    Over budget? Fair enough. It was just an idea.

    I hope I didn't come across as ungrateful for the idea. I do appreciate it. :-)

    It turns out the "COOLER MASTER Elite 360 Mini Tower" does only have the one internal 3.5" drive bay, so it looks like external will have to be the way to go (for me). I was asking because I can easily get an external hard drive later on - at an admittedly greater cost - which has benefits all its own. And deferring the initial cost as much as possible is a priority.

    I'm sure you're right - I'll take your word that 400w should be plenty.

    Redundant Array of Inexpensive Computers

    A "RAIC," huh? Maybe I don't need to get rid of that Dell so hastily...










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